I have a beginner's question about pronunciation. I have noticed that sometimes Turkish words ending with an "r" are pronounced with a "zh" sound, and sometimes with just the "r" sound. I have even heard the same word (for example hayir) pronounced both ways by different speakers. Oddly, none of the four textbooks I have consulted explains this. Is there a rule for knowing which pronunciation to use? Is it a dialect difference?

Hi,

I think you has wrong impression because in Turkish "r" never pronounce with zh sound.

Thats why you can not find any topic related to your questions in grammer books.

If you can give some more example than i can respond abt dialects. But hayir is not a good example. Hayir always end with r sound even is dialects

regards

Hi Walter
Cant say I have noticed your point but ,as someone who is struggling to learn Turkish,can I recommend wwwdotturkishlanguagedotcodotuk as a great help in both pronunciation and explanation
and good luck with it

Let me give a few examples of what I'm hearing:

SueP: I bought the Pollard book you recommended. If you listen to the audio for page 16, the male speaker pronounces bir as "birzh".

In this Youtube video:
http://www.(xxx)/watch?v=JsERZtBaaPw&feature=related
At :03 seconds the speaker pronounces kelimeler as "kelimelerzh", and at :40 seconds pronounces onlar as "onlarzh" or "onlarsh".

And in this Youtube video:
http://www.(xxx)/watch?v=CmaG0ML8TnA&feature=related
at :11 seconds, and again at :59, the speaker pronounces hayir as "hayirzh". What really confuses me is that at 4:31 she reads three phrases in which she pronounces bir as "birzh"- then repeats the phrases pronouncing it "bir".

Am I really just hearing it wrong? It is the inconsistency which puzzles me.

Hi Walter,
I watched the video and listened to the audio you mentioned.
I cant really hear what you mean but I live here so I am very used to the inflections.
I think it is dependent on the word which follows on.
By the way the utube video is excellent .I wish I had seen that at the beginning of my learning Turkish.

Hi Again,

Maybe you get confused about words.

there is bir in Turkish means (one) and there is also biraz in Turkish means some. I think you get confused about this.

I dont have possiblity to listen such topics. But i guess you also get confused about "onlar" and "onlarsız" onlar maeans them , onlarsız means without them.

hoping that this infor can help you


regards

Walter, I definitely know what you're talking about and it surprises me that others don't seem to know what you mean. The "rzh" sound seems to show up when a word ending in "r" ends a phrase or a sentence. (I often hear "Iyi aksamlar" or "iyi geceler" as "aksamlarzh" or "gecelerzh.") But if the word ending in "r" comes before another word, then the "r" sound will be pronounced without "zh."

As far as "bir" goes, usually if someone says "bir" followed by another word ("Bir tane..."), the "r" sound will be pronounced very clearly. But if "bir" were just stated as a one-word answer to "kac tane?" or something like that, then you'd often hear "birzh."

I've also noticed that Turks tend to carry this into speaking English. For example, I was walking around with a friend of mine and he was talking to me about Galata Tower and whenever he ended a sentence or a clause with "tower," he would always say "towerzh."

I'm not quite sure why this is. I have friends from all over Turkey and they all seem to do this, so I don't think it's a matter of a specific dialect. Regardless, I don't think you're hearing it wrong. My American friends and I all hear it, so you're not crazy!

Hi ef8763a:

Thanks for the confirmation that I'm not crazy...I was starting to wonder. After going back over several of the videos, I think you are correct that the "zh/sh" sound only appears if there are no following words. I find it curious that such an obvious (to my ears) sound receives so little mention in instructional materials.

Update: I just received my copy of Elementary Turkish by Kurtuluş Öztopçu. In chapter one he mentions that a final "r" sometimes has an "sh" sound, although he doesn't explain when to use it. Maybe that will come later. In any case, more confirmation that I'm not crazy!

You really aren't the only one to notice this - so you're not going crazy just yet. I've thought of this this for ages now. I even find myself sometimes pronouncing the 'sh' at the end.

I think it's definitely present when a Turkish person says 'bir' or 'iyi aksamlar'. I don't really notice it in the word 'hayir' though.

When my girlfriend pronounces certain words in English, I can hear the same, such as when she says 'sure'.

Hi everyone,
I have been teaching Turkish for very long years and some of my careful students asked me this question quiet often. They asked me to repeat the word again and again as I was pronouncing "r" in a different strange way. I tried to convince them that it was just an "r" )) I think Turkish people just don't realize this issue as you do. But you are right and I think if R is at the end of a word it is pronounced in a funny way and if it is in the middle it is a proper R.Of course this still depends on the speaker.
Good luck with your Turkish !

Dear Turkishteacher,

can you please give an example abt funny pronouncation of "r" at the end.

"r" is pronounce just "r" in Turkish in a simple way.
bir
her
sor
gelir
sorar
naber

all just end with simple way of "r"

please brighten us more Turkish teacher

It is all explained and confirmed in the previous posts. You'd better read them.It is a simple r pronounced in a different way. As I said it depends on the speaker and most Turkish people don't realize this anyway.

Dear Turkish Teacher

I think it can be easy for you to give some simple examples to brighten us.

I really wonder what type of words are they

suep,walter_mellon and ef8763a explained what they mean in a very clear way and I said I know what they mean and understand them as this was told to me by many of my students. You can just read the previous posts but it seems like you will not get it. One more last time: If R is at the end of a single word it is pronounced a bit differently like" iyi aksamlar" or "hayir" and if another word or a syllable follows it, it is a proper R like her aksam , biraz ..
Enjoy your day !